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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2518
|
Posted - 2016.01.26 14:50:09 -
[1] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Actually that reminds me, I've had a question I've been wanting to ask the nullsec groups....
I understand you can only jump a freighter into lowsec at the outskirts of highsec, then you have to "slowboat"/gate it to highsec. Once you undock from your station (say, Jita), you can jump back out again. But, why not have some of your alts ship goods to the edge of highsec so your freighter only has to go through one gate? Like, get a bunch of DST's to ship stuff to the highsec system bordering low, then freighter it from there? Seems like a safer venture than going all the way to Jita with the freighter.
I don't really deal with logistics but I would guess size matter in that case. Even after bulkhead, you can put a few DST worth of cargo in a freighter. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2520
|
Posted - 2016.01.26 21:52:52 -
[2] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Eli Apol wrote:
I like ganking as a part of the game but really it's laughable how easy it is to setup a 30 day gank alt and log it in on request.
Which, again, is true only because there is a contingent of Lemming-like players who will cheerfully feed themselves to gankers. If they made even a token effort to defend themselves, this wouldn't be the case. Why don't you take this up with the imbeciles who make ganking so proftable instead of trying to subsidize them?
This will be tongue in cheek but the gankers are bringning the issue to the gankee in the form of antimater on a daily basis and we have yet to see any improvement...
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2521
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 15:16:12 -
[3] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Anything that can be used to avoid bumping can be fairly easily countered - webber is countered by a cruiser suicide tackling the freighter while first bump lands. From there, it's usually gg for the freighter.
Essentially, what you are saying is that if the gankers "team" put more effort in it than the gankee's team, then they have better odds of winning. I'm pretty sure that's EVE working as intended.
I never really liked how bumping works but every single "solution" the the "problem" ever proposed usually involve a **** load of problems down the line so I just decided to accept how it is. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2523
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 15:38:23 -
[4] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Don't you have anything better than "I don't like it so it should go away"? Don't you have anything better than "It's working as intended...no wait...it's not working as intended...well it kinda works...well let's keep it anyway instead of exploring other options?...CAREBEAR...HE'S A CAREBEAR" I'm not egotistical enough to think my opinion on a forum *will* change the game but having a discussion about mechanics is vastly more interesting for me than namecalling, misrepresenting points and basically acting in denial that there might be some other workable solution to the current flawed method.
Bumping has been discussed to hell and back then back again to hell and back. The poor dead horse had a monument erected for it but we also beat that into the groud. The only reason we still remember where that poor horse "is" is because we keep coming back even tho there is nothing left there and even the "replacement" is now long gone. May God have mercy for the soul of that poor horse.
Bumping discussion always end up with nothing because every solution ends worse than what we have currently working. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2524
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 15:48:09 -
[5] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Anything that can be used to avoid bumping can be fairly easily countered - webber is countered by a cruiser suicide tackling the freighter while first bump lands. From there, it's usually gg for the freighter.
Essentially, what you are saying is that if the gankers "team" put more effort in it than the gankee's team, then they have better odds of winning. I'm pretty sure that's EVE working as intended. I never really liked how bumping works but every single "solution" the the "problem" ever proposed usually involve a **** load of problems down the line so I just decided to accept how it is. No, what I'm saying is that once the first bump lands, you're pretty much f****d and you can do very little if nothing to change that, particularly if you want to get out of it in a way which will not result with criminal flags / killrights for non-ganker side. Being able to essentially perma-bump a freighter while using just two chars without any consequences whatsoever for the bumping character is not 'putting more effort', it is simply wrong. The fact that (quite often) you can extract loot safely is also wrong. The fact that some guys are so bitter about any discussion related to changing such mechanics is moderately amusing.
Using 2 guys for them bumping sure as hell is more effort than using just one for the freighter...
You are also telling me that your ship is worth less than criminal flags/kill rights on some alts/friend character for killing the bumper?
You are just not willing to do anything about it and also not willing to accept the consequence of not doing anything about it. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2525
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 16:00:10 -
[6] - Quote
Takari wrote:
Possible bad idea incoming:
Stabilizing Jets. Your ship cannot be moved unless bumped by a combined mass greater than a percentage of your ships mass (increasing percentage for meta or tech II variants?), but in exchange it increases your align time by 20% (Or Decreases cargo capacity by 10% two possible modules? )
This way if you're caught by the entire gank fleet, you're still not going anywhere but if one guy catches you, he's about to be brick walled?
If they are good enough to prevent a MWD mach from bumping a freighter (battleship mass * MWD mass bonus) then they will prevent any capital ship from ever being meaningfully bumped unless you cyno/jump something "inside" of it. This could generate some issue. Binary effect of modules are also rarely really liked like how stabs are just a pass/fail mechanic for being pointed. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2529
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 20:07:58 -
[7] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Lyma Sarum wrote:There is 0 (zero) balance when it comes to a new player coming in and like me wants to haul. Yeah, and you can't fly a Titan in your first week either. Some things just aren't for new players. Simple as that.
Not an argument for or against but could a decent pilot perma bump something like a badger? |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2546
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 18:20:54 -
[8] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:KickAss Tivianne wrote: Correct, this is the problem. Thank you for seeing it. It should be a hostile act.
No, it should not. Nevermind that it is neither inflicting any damage to the other player nor inflicting a negative status effect on it,
That's the whole core of the mechanic here. You can "point" a ship if it's agility is too low and the game does not and probably never will have a way to "see" this. Even if a game rule was made to combat it, the engine would not be able to enforce it without breaking many more things in the game. There are probably thousands of un-intended collision in the game for every intended bump.
Still, I usually laugh when I try to picture the same things IRL where a bunch of tug boats would mess around with a freighter moving him away from his intended heading. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2546
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 18:25:03 -
[9] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:You know what would be awesomeGǪis if the anti-ganking GǣcommunityGǥ actually got serious and stopped screwing around, especially in the cases of the long period bumping instances. Do they have a corporation or alliance? No. Do they pre-position assets? No. Do they have a comms system so they can communicate more quickly? Do they use some sort of IRC style method of keeping people informed? No. Have they thought about doing something really effective, like getting into CODE with an alt spy and try to learn who is moving ships and stuff for ganking? Maybe go gank that guy.
Instead they come here and complain hoping GÇ£mom and dadGÇ¥ will do something to help people instead of people helping themselves.
And the ironic thing isGǪto gank a bumping ship it would take far, far fewer peopleGÇöi.e. the herding cats problem is a lot less of a problem.
Maybe CCP can create a new in game itemGǪ.cheese, and we can start contracting cheese to these anti-gankers to go with their whine.
Even if you fail to gank the bumper, the gankers need even more time now because CONCORD is spawned and need to be cleaned up or require much more DPS. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2547
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 18:26:34 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:KickAss Tivianne wrote: Correct, this is the problem. Thank you for seeing it. It should be a hostile act.
No, it should not. Nevermind that it is neither inflicting any damage to the other player nor inflicting a negative status effect on it, That's the whole core of the mechanic here. You can "point" a ship if it's agility is too low and the game does not and probably never will have a way to "see" this. Even if a game rule was made to combat it, the engine would not be able to enforce it without breaking many more things in the game. There are probably thousands of un-intended collision in the game for every intended bump. Still, I usually laugh when I try to picture the same things IRL where a bunch of tug boats would mess around with a freighter moving him away from his intended heading. Oh it's absolutely doable too. I've seen tugs push much bigger ships out of ice floes, when I used to live in Alaska. And we all know, or at least those of us who aren't ignorant anti gankers, that this game uses a fluidic physics model. I laugh every time I see someone say that it's not "realistic", because they don't have a clue.
I meant more along the line of a ship wanting to enter harbor and a buch of tugs just going "**** you!!!" and spinning it back toward high sea. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2548
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 20:42:59 -
[11] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:KickAss Tivianne wrote:This post has grown with people adding more evidence. What evidence? None has been posted showing that an issue exists at all.
The "issue" is that albeit the horse is long gone, we still made a 27 pages thread about it... |
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